Sunday Interview with Rabbi Beth Schwartz: ‘Judaism is very different today’

A: I grew up in the ’50s and ’60s, and at that time Philadelphia had a very large population of Jews, about 300,000, probably second to New York, very large. I grew up in a largely Jewish neighborhood, but went to public school. ... Typical post-war neighborhood with a public elementary school right in the middle of the neighborhood, but most of the teachers were not Jewish. We learned to sing Christmas carols, but (had) a very strong Jewish identity. My father had fought in World War II in France and was seriously wounded and was in Paris on D-Day. Very strong impression. World War II was current events when I was a kid.

A: I’m the middle of three children, (with) two brothers... very typical baby boomer family. I went to public school for elementary school and what was then called junior high. Then I transferred to a small private Jewish school for high school — very progressive and very academically rigorous. It was in an old house in the suburbs. ... I grew up in a very Jewish world and then gradually that world opened up as my world opened as I grew up.

A: My first experience with anti-Semitism was actually from my next door neighbor. ... Our neighbors on both sides were Irish Catholic. The neighbors on one side where we shared front steps were the epitome of every positive stereotype about Irish Catholics. ... We were next door neighbors for all the years that we lived on that street. My parents were friends with them. It was lovely.

The neighbors on the other side exemplified the negative stereotypes. ... I was about 10 and my next door neighbor, who was about my age, a little older, called me “a damned Jew.” That was rare, but it has always stood out to me about stereotypes because I experienced two sides of a stereotype of one particular group.

A: We were not very observant ritually, mostly holidays. We didn’t keep kosher. We didn’t stay home on Shabbat, on the Sabbath, but still a very strong Jewish identity. I still to this day have my mother’s copy of the book of Jewish law, which is a law code that’s still the benchmark of strict observance that was written in the 16th century. It’s still a very influential work. My mother had a copy even though we were not strictly observant. In the mid-20th century, many Jews were second- and third-generation in America, and very focused on what it was to be an American and the idea that America is a melting pot. ...

My parents were politically liberal, however that was defined back then. The high school that I went to was very liberal. We did a lot of study about civil rights in the ’60s, a lot of support for civil rights. We sang “We Shall Overcome” in Hebrew and talked a lot about what was the difference between being active in social justice causes, because they were just and they were humane, and why we should be extra motivated for that because we were Jewish.

A: I think there are a couple of things. One is a very ancient tradition of empathy for those who are on the outside. We read in the Torah over and over again that we should care about and support the widow, the orphan, and the stranger; to have concern for the poor, to not take advantage of the poor, to not place a stumbling block in front of the blind or the deaf. ... And when we sit down at the Passover Seder every year, we repeat the injunction to have empathy for others. We were strangers in Egypt. We suffered in Egypt. We should remember that suffering and use it to support those who are being oppressed in our own day.

There is that and the more recent experiences through history of being persecuted, of being excluded and oppressed, which says to us, “If it’s wrong for us it’s wrong for others.” ... Since coming to Columbus I know that we have had many members of the Jewish community who worked for school desegregation, which was relatively not violent as I understand it here in Columbus ... Judge (Aaron) Cohn, the Rothschilds, many members of the Jewish community. We carry on that tradition. The Hebrew word for it that we use is “tzedakah” — that we do acts of loving kindness because they are the right thing to do.

A: (I grew up in a home) where there was a very strong Jewish identity — historically and culturally — a sense of one God, a sense of mission in the world to be good people and to be visibly good and honest people. ... Then I went to a religious high school where at the age of 13 or so I first encountered seriously the idea of God. ... It hit me right at that moment. It was very exciting intellectually, spiritually, the idea that there is only one God, that God is indescribable and yet real. That’s something that I wrestled with happily as a teenager.

... I was one of the few in our tiny little congregation who could read and write Hebrew. I was asked particularly to teach students preparing for bar mitzvah because we were so few. We were only about 30 families. I became the bar and bat mitzvah teacher and had to study on my own and learn and really think hard about what that meant in order to teach. ... We had a part-time rabbi who had some health issues and I would step in for her. Then she left and I was leading services because she taught me how to lead services. ... That was really a turning point. I had to really think about what I wanted. .... That rabbi was a mentor to me, Rabbi Judith Abrams. ... Our next rabbi was also very encouraging and a mentor, and he is still a good friend. He sent me to a study program over the summer and that was a taste of rabbinical school. It was pretty wonderful, it was very challenging in the best way. Eventually I figured out and everybody around me said, “You’re crazy for doing this, but we’ve known.”

A: There are now. The first woman was ordained in America in 1972. There are probably 700 women rabbis in reformed Judaism today and several hundred more conservative women rabbis. A handful of orthodox women have very recently earned the title that is equivalent to a rabbi. It’s not exactly rabbi because orthodox still do not believe that women should be congregational rabbis. There are several dozen women rabbis in Great Britain and several dozen more throughout Europe and also in Israel — again, in the central and liberal movements of Judaism.

A: ... Women do sometimes approach some issues differently. That takes adjusting to for many congregations. ... It just shakes up their paradigm of what a religious leader is, could be, should be. Sometimes women rabbis will think of things that men don’t think of.

A: When I have students who are studying to convert to Judaism, I assign them to learn how to make challah, the bread. I also assign them to help out in the kitchen preparing for our community Seder. That’s very stereotypically a woman’s thing, but you’d be surprised how many men love making challah. If they had only known! I think sometimes a man who is in emotional crisis might find it easier to cry in front of a woman rabbi than in front of another man, particularly when there is grief, when there is loss, a bereavement.

A: When I knew that I was going to leave Knoxville... I started to look at the congregations who were looking for rabbis and to send out my credentials, because in Judaism there’s no central organization that assigns us — say, as in the Methodist church. I very quickly discovered that I was known as a Southern rabbi. Southern congregations were more positive about my credentials. That was an interesting discovery. Knoxville is Southern, but more Appalachian. It’s not really the South. Honestly, I had not heard of Columbus, Ga.

... Also, because I was older, I wasn’t looking for another rung on my career ladder. I just wanted a place that would be a nice place to live and a congregation that was a good congregation with caring people and with people who cared about each other and cared about their community. In Southern congregations, particularly, rabbis have a public role because we’re such a minority. I had had that role in Knoxville and I enjoyed it very much. I consider it part of my teaching as a rabbi. This congregation, Temple Israel, was looking for a rabbi who would be a community person as well.

A: One of the things that I’m proudest of was I was a founding member of the Clergy Task Force Against Domestic Violence. ... That was a very fulfilling experience and I believe that we had an impact. Research shows that victims of domestic violence ask for spiritual support almost as often as they ask for orders of protection. Many pastors are not well prepared for that. I also served on a couple of advisory committees for the mayor. I was involved in Martin Luther King commemoration… I spoke at the university. I spoke at churches and civic groups. There was definitely a very public aspect to being a rabbi in Knoxville and that was good preparation here.

A: I still speak when I’m invited to speak at churches and civic groups. I’ve been involved at the National Infantry Museum Day of Remembrance for the Holocaust every spring and I will be again this year. ... Mayor (Teresa) Tomlinson invited me, because of my direct work as part of a coalition on domestic violence, to be part of the opportunity center task force around homelessness.

In Knoxville, the clergy task force was part of an effort to establish a family justice center, a very successful effort, which is a place where someone in need can go to one place and access a whole gamut of services and get support. ... The opportunity center here is an idea that says, “If you’re homeless you can go to one place rather than having to go to five, six different places around town and find your way on public transportation or on foot.”

A: What do you think? I always like to ask, what do you think?

A: It isn’t. But because we’ve always been involved in the life of the city, a lot of people assume that it’s larger than it is. It’s really only a few hundred families who are affiliated. We know there are more Jews who are not affiliated, but it’s really quite small. There have been Jews in Columbus almost as long as there’s been Columbus. We’ve always been part of the life of the city, and Columbusites have always assumed, “Yeah, of course there’s a Jewish community here and here are our Jewish neighbors and I know so and so and so and so. We go here, we go there.” It’s just normal. Which is a surprise to some folks coming from other parts of the country that it is so normal and that we have such a deep root here and such a rich history.

A: This is a culture of affiliation. As long as you’re affiliated you’re OK. Even if you’re Jewish. Some people will say, “Oh yeah, that’s the Jewish church.” We’re not a church, but they get it. ... There is prejudice and it’s mostly low-key. I’ve heard stories from people of many generations. I think a lot of it is that people just don’t know what Judaism is. People don’t realize how much diversity there is within Judaism. Honestly, there are a lot of people who just cannot imagine that someone worships in a different way and cannot imagine that someone has different religious customs and also can’t imagine that today’s Judaism is not like what they read in the Bible.

Judaism is very different today. Sometimes I have to hide a smile at some of the questions I get asked and answer very patiently. There are certainly people in our community who believe that because we are not Christian we will go to hell, that there is no salvation for us because there is no Jesus in our lives. I say to them, when I’m asked, “That’s a Christian question. I can’t give you a Christian answer. I can give you a Jewish answer to what we believe about our mission in this world, what we believe about what happens when we die, but it’s probably not the answer you’re expecting or an answer you’re looking for because it’s not a Christian answer. I can’t give you a Christian answer. I’m a rabbi.”

A: Actually, I have not gone to Atlanta, but I do speak, not so much publicly, but here at home in the congregation. We have freedom of religion. Some religions have traditions that other religions don’t approve of. It doesn’t take anything away from those who disapprove on whatever grounds of issues like same-sex marriage or abortion rights. In their churches they can continue to preach and teach and are not forced to conduct, officiate or approve of same-sex marriages. It’s hard to understand why they need special protection, whereas to say that I as a rabbi would not be permitted to officiate at a function that is perfectly appropriate and acceptable and welcome in my tradition because your tradition doesn’t like it. Why do you need protection when it’s not something you’re going to do and there’s no compunction for you to do it?

A: Yes. I think many Jews are particularly sensitive about that because we are on the receiving end historically of proselytizing and people trying to compel us to live according to their traditions. We’re not trying to tell anybody to live according to our traditions. You want to be Jewish? — we’re open and welcoming, but we don’t go out and proselytize. We don’t witness. We certainly don’t compel anyone to worship as we do. ...

A: We support that event. ... Pastor Bailey and I have spoken a number of times. He has assured me and other leaders of the Jewish community that there’s no agenda toward the Jews of Columbus or anywhere, but that they consider Israel to be a just cause and needing their support, because of their respect for Judaism as a sister religion, as really the mothership of Christianity because Jesus was Jewish. I have not run into anybody in Columbus who is surprised by that. I have run into Christians elsewhere.

A: Most Christians that we interact with have great respect for Jews and recognize that Jesus was Jewish. The tolerance comes from respect.

A: He was a very charismatic teacher. He was a troublemaker. He made enough trouble that the Romans killed him because they didn’t want trouble. They crucified thousands and thousands of people and thousands and thousands of Jews often at one time. His followers understood his message — his followers were Jewish. His first followers were Jewish and they were so moved by his life, they took that message further and eventually — and it took a few generations — as they took that message further beyond the Jewish community, it evolved into what we recognize as Christianity.

A: If he saw corruption, he challenged it. If he saw oppression, he mentioned it. If he saw people being excluded, he made a point to include them. He rocked the boat.

A: Absolutely, he was very Jewish.

A: No different than any of us. We’re all created in the image of God.

A: ... I think a lot of people today are sadly, unfortunately, not knowledgeable about the history of the last 100-plus years … in the land of Palestine and then the state of Israel and its neighbors. That has led to a number of positions across the spectrum that are not so accurate or that are narrow, very narrow. ...

I wish there were peace. I wish that the things that I disagree with where Israel is concerned about the Israeli government, I wish they would do things differently, but it’s not my government. I wish that there would be someone on the Palestinian side who is willing to stand up and put his life on the line and say there has to be peace, that we cannot build a future on death. We cannot keep sending our children and telling them that the best thing they can do is to stab an Israeli. I don’t see where that gets them anything close to what they say they want. ... By the same token, efforts that Israel makes to undermine the anger and the distrust are not well reported in the media.