‘Failure wasn’t an option for me’

A: I was born down a dirt road just inside of Crawford known as “The Lane.” ... We lived in a small wood-frame house with three rooms. We didn’t have indoor facilities. Our only source of water was a well. Our only source of heat was a fireplace. Of course, you cooked with wood. We didn’t have the modern facilities at all. There were three of us initially, and then my younger sister, Pat Hugley Green, came along, and she kind of missed out on all of that. My parents only had a sixth-grade education. My father was a mill worker. He actually was an alcoholic, and so the relationship was an abusive relationship and did not last long. My mother finally decided that she had taken all that she could take, and she packed up her four children, and we moved to public housing, Fred Douglass Apartments in Phenix City.

A: My mother was a domestic worker. She earned $5 a day, and so we were subject to welfare. My mother was a woman with a lot of wisdom, common sense, and I’ve never known her not to work. She just didn’t earn enough to not be on welfare, but she worked every day of her life that I know of. So, of course, we were on welfare and reduced meals at school. We couldn’t afford the things that others could afford. Although we lived in public housing, we thought others had more, but they were actually poor, too, and you didn’t realize that until later in life.

My mother truly believed, and continues to believe, in education. She believed that we could do anything we put our minds to do. “Just because you’re from public housing projects, it doesn’t have to be in you. You can be a doctor. You can be a lawyer. You can do anything you put your mind to do.”

A: We moved to Columbus as I was going to the 10th grade. I’d gone to Susie E. Allen and Central Junior High School, and then to South Girard in the ninth grade. And 10th grade, we moved to Columbus to Farley Homes. ... We stayed at Farley Homes for two years, and my senior year we moved to Baker Village, another public housing complex. ... I graduated high school at Spencer. But prior to graduating, I had a little job. I worked at Sun Ray/Scientific Cleaners, dry cleaners, and I recall even my senior year riding my bicycle up Fort Benning Road around Brennan Road to that little Spencer swap shop right there at Buena Vista and Saint Marys.

A: I closed the shop at 7 and would ride my bicycle back home to Baker Village. There was a young man named Ray Griffin who lived in the apartments right behind that little swap shop there. He would come in to get his dry cleaning and he would always ask me, “What are you gonna do after high school?” I would always tell him, “I’m going in the Army.” I was an ROTC cadet, and I felt that was my way out, going into the Army. And he would say, “Why not college?” He would proceed to tell me about Talladega College, and how he felt he could help me get into that school and get the financial aid I needed. But I was just an average student. My mind was set on Army, going into the military. So, he kept nagging me (so much) about going to college and Talladega College that I finally decided to go ahead and write them as he had instructed me to do, because he had worked in the financial aid office at Talladega College, and of course was a graduate of Talladega College. Through his connections, I was able to get accepted as an average student. .... Got there and I actually took the prerequisite courses to get me up to speed on those things I should have gotten in high school but did not get, and to prepare me for the real college work. I was determined because I had a mother with a sixth-grade education and no history of family members who had even finished high school, let alone go to college. My mom was so proud.

A: Yes, HBCU.

A: I was accepted on an assistantship where you were required to work 15 hours a week, and they paid you $275 a month. When I arrived at Mississippi State and going through registration, there was a young lady in front of me registering for public administration as I was going to do, and we engaged in conversation. She had graduated at the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff. As we talked more, I found out that she had graduated summa cum laude, and she kept on talking and I kept on getting interested. I found out she was on a fellowship, where they were going to pay her $300 a month and pay all of her tuition and fees, and I had to work for 15 hours for $275, and they were not going to pay my tuition and fees.

I couldn’t afford my books, and initially could not afford to pay all of the tuition, and so I was going to actually come home. I called my mother and told her I was going to have to come home because I needed $1,200 to register. She said, “No. You’re not coming home.” She went down to 13th Street and there was a finance company named Dixie Finance, as I recall. She borrowed that money with a very high interest rate, may have been 30 percent, but she was determined that “you’re going to get that education.” That’s how I was able to stay there, and I was able to register for every single class that Carolyn Flemming had registered for, because I knew she would get her books, and I would be able to use her books. When she’s not using this book, I’ll use that book.

A: Yes. Absolutely. And the moral of that story is that I worked hard that first semester, because she was expected to achieve from her family because they were all educated. Studying with her, and working with her, and using her notes when she took better notes than I did, I was able that first semester to get about a 3.85 grade point average, and they offered me the same fellowship that she had. I no longer had to work. I got the $300 and my tuition and fees were paid.

A: No. There are four of us. I’ve got my older sister who lives in Omaha, Neb., and I’ve got a brother who lives here. Then, Pat Hugley Green is my baby sister. Yes, we’re very close.

A: I knew that education was the key, the escalator, to my family changing the history of my family. When my brother came along, of course behind me, he went to Talladega as well. Then, when Pat came along, I made sure that she did all the things that she was supposed to do to prepare herself and go off to college. I’m the one that came and drove her off to college. I’m the one that supported her financially when she was in college. It was like I was going to provide for Pat even if I couldn’t provide for myself. She went off to college, and she did everything I would have expected or wanted her to do. She had a scholarship. She performed well. She finished in four years. She finished in the top 10 percent of the class. She came back and she went to work, and she was there to support the family. ... She’s a smart young lady — she’s smarter than I am. I’m really impressed with her, my little sister. ... I appreciate the fact that she’s come back, and she’s done well for the family.

A: We were married in Arkansas, her home, but we both had jobs in Jackson, Miss. ... Mama kept just worrying me about moving back home, and so I started applying for jobs, and I was working in transportation, and I applied for a job with Metra, the public transit system. Of course, they didn’t have any openings at the time. I just couldn’t find a job here.

Two years after I applied for a job with the City of Columbus at Metra, about 6 a.m. one morning, I get this loud man on the phone, Warren Steele Sr. He says, “You applied for a job in Columbus, and I notice you work in transportation, and I want to know if you’re still interested in transportation work in Columbus.” That was two years ago, you know? I said, “Yes,” and he says, “Well, we’d be interested in talking to you.” He scheduled the interview, and I came over and I talked to the city manager, then Frank Lambert. I talked to Bill Feighner. They sent me over to talk to Metra’s director at that time, George Moore, and so I talked to them, and went back to Jackson, Miss. Then he calls me again for a follow-up interview.

A: I came back for the follow-up interview, and they made an offer to me that wasn’t, quite frankly, a good offer. They offered me less money than I made in Jackson. When I was in Jackson, my wife earned more money than I earned. She worked for the PEER Committee, the Performance Evaluation Expenditures Review Committee, which is the investigative arm of the state legislature in Mississippi. ... But because my mother wanted me to come home, and it was an opportunity, I was able to convince Carolyn, “You should give up your job and you should move home with me. I’m going to make less money than what I earn now, and you won’t have a job at all.” But she was willing as a committed wife to follow her husband. It was something I wanted to do and she was willing to sacrifice, give up her employment, her career, and come home to Columbus with me, and she did. That’s how I got back to Columbus.

She was here for more than a year and was not able to find a job. Then, once the first job came through for her, then other job opportunities started to come through for her. I worked for Metra for three and a half years as assistant director, and then City Manager C. L. Moffett called me, and he said to me, “Yeah, I’ve been watching you for the time that you’ve been here, and I’m impressed with your professionalism. I’m impressed with you, and George Moore is going to be retiring.” And he says, “I want to appoint you as the Metra director.” I was 30 years old. ... Had I not listened to my mother, and had Carolyn not been willing to make the sacrifice and come home with me, I wouldn’t have been the first African-American director in the history of our consolidated city government.

A: I was Metra director for roughly nine years or so. Then, I got a call from Carmen Cavezza. He says, “I’ve gotten council to approve two deputy city manager positions.” He says, “I’m looking for a deputy city manager for day-to-day operations, and a deputy city manager for planning and future development.” He says, “I’ve been watching you.” And he says, “You’re the person that I’m interested in.” He proceeded forward with that appointment, and it happened. Then I worked for him as his deputy city manager for seven years, and he decided he was going to retire and took the job at the Cunningham Center for Leadership Development at Columbus State. ...

Of course, Bob Poydasheff was mayor. Bob Poydasheff felt like I was the right person to be city manager, and he took that appointment forward, and I was confirmed. That’s how I matriculated through the city government. The young man from welfare and a dirt road in Crawford, Ala., to the public housing in Phenix City and Columbus, and to move through the government, a government with roughly about 3,000 employees, and become city manager is an honor. It’s a privilege, and I love my city. I’m happy.

A: First of all, it was an honor to receive such an award along with my wife, something that had never happened before. But I often get emotional when I talk about my background and where I came from. I recognize how good God has been to me. It causes me to get emotional.

A: First of all, let me say I will speak for what I think, and I’ll let him speak for what he thinks. I think so. ... Becoming the first African-American city manager was not an easy transition for me, and it was not an easy transition for many in this community. ... Many people feel like, “When I say (things), when it’s only my race in the room, that it’s guarded. It’s a secret, and it’s not going to get out of the room.” I’ve got real friends across racial lines, and things would get shared with me of what was said or of what was felt, because they wanted me to know. They wanted me to succeed. There were some who, quite frankly, didn’t want me to succeed. As I became city manager, I knew that I would be challenged. I knew that I had to work hard and be prepared, and I was determined to do that because it was a matter of pride, and it was about representing my family, my college, all that I had been through in life. There would be others watching me and saying, “I want to be like him. If he did it, I can do it.” Failure wasn’t an option for me.

A: Many were racial. Many felt it wasn’t deserving. Some felt the timing was just not right for that transition. I heard some things that I really would not want to repeat. There was one thing that I recall was very disturbing to me, and I’m going to say it. I’m going to say it and realize that it’s going to create a lot of conversation. One person who was an elected official at the time made the comment to a reporter from the Ledger that, “We are about to get a n----- for a city manager.” The way they said it to your reporter was that, “Off the record, we are about to get a ...” The reporter never agreed it was off the record. So... it got brought to my attention.

A: It did initially, but I was able to endure those early years, and once I got past the first three or four years, there continues to be pressure, but not like what it was then, because it was about proving myself. I believe I’ve done that.

A: I think we continue to get better at it, but there’s a lot of room for improvement. I thought I understood racism, and until I got to that point in my life, as I prepared to become city manager, I realized I really didn’t.

A: My response today is the same as it was then. This government is a large government. The city manager is required — or the mayor — to sign all contracts. ... We found out later, there were some contracts that had been signed, and contracts that didn’t go through this process — contracts that I’d never heard of and didn’t know about. The response does not change. I accept full responsibility for the good and the bad in this government. I simply was not aware.

When I looked at what was going on with the Parks and Rec at that time, I saw an effort to do something good by those individuals that turned into something bad. They did a lot of good with youth in this community, and some of those youth — many of them — have grown to be adults and they’re better citizens today. They’re productive citizens, and so I think Tony Adams and Herman Porter did an excellent job with our youth. I think they were trying to do something good that turned out bad. Tony Adams signed contracts with Nike. He should not have done it. When I asked Tony Adams if he had signed contracts when people were saying to me that he had signed contract, each time I asked him — I asked him at least three times — he denied it. Then, the contracts were revealed. Nike released the contracts, and when I saw the contracts, I terminated Tony Adams. It was that simple.

A: They did, and that was wrong, and used the city EIN tax number. Totally inappropriate. Totally wrong.

A: No. There’s no evidence that I can see that he bought a pair of sneakers or bought a car or did anything for personal gain. It was about servicing the children, that I have been able to determine. Were they wrong? Absolutely. Should they have been fired? Absolutely. Would I fire them again if something like that happened? Absolutely.

A: I don’t about how I handled it. When I found out that there were some inappropriate, illegal contracts, he was fired.

... Let me just say that during the course of my career as city manager, we’ve had a lot of good things. ... I have probably dealt with 150 to 200 projects when it comes to roads and buildings and structure, or infrastructure. I have probably been responsible for staff dealing with in excess of a billion dollars. ... We have gone through a remaking of Columbus, Ga., in the last 11 years since I’ve been city manager. I don’t care where you go or ride around this city, we have transitioned and gone about a remaking of this city. So when I look at all the projects that I’ve done or been responsible for, and all of the money that I’ve been a steward of making sure it was spent properly and projects that came in the way they needed to come in, when I look at the things like that bump in the road with Tony Adams, and I look at all of the good that we have done, my good days outweigh my bad days by a lot.

A: I think Dr. James Worsley is an awesome leader and we’re lucky to have him. He came in and he took over a department with much scandal and with no accreditations, the worst Parks and Rec department probably in the state of Georgia at its lowest point. And within a few years — two, three years — he was able to do a 180 and turn it around, get national accreditation, win State Recreation Department for two or three years in a row. All of his people are certified in various areas, and we are probably the most highly regarded parks and rec department in the state of Georgia at this very moment. He turned it around and he’s an awesome leader. We’re lucky to have him, and we’ll be lucky to keep him.

A: The mayor has made known to the community and to our legislative body, the City Council, that she (has proposed) a budget of $1.2 million dollars, and 89 hours of operations per week in the mayor’s proposed budget. ... Council will make a decision as to whether they want to leave it in the proposed budget.

A: There is no disconnect for me. The bottom line is, I think I’ve said to them, “If you want 89 hours, we can give you 89 hours. Give us the budget to do it.” That’s been my position all along. I can show you how to get the money, to get the $1.2 million to do 89 hours. It’s up to you as to whether you want to accept my recommendations or not, and obviously my recommendations were not accepted, and that’s fine. They had a difficult time making a decision, but you cannot do 89 hours at an Aquatic Center and employ and deliver what is expected for $825,000. I’m clear on that. I needed them to be clear, and so there’s no issue with me.

A: No, I think it was a good idea.

Q: Even though we can’t afford to maintain and operate it?

A: I think if we approach it with an open mind, we can afford to operate it. We can’t afford to do some of the other things that we do, like fund outside agencies. ... If we revisit some of the things that we are doing, there’s no reason we could not do the $1.2 million and the 89 hours.

A: Right. Our staff initially did research dating back to a 1928 title search, and there were no issues. Thankfully, a professor from CSU had done some research and they went back to 1925, and there is a deed restriction that says it can only be used for parks and playgrounds. The only way you can change the use of that property would be through an act of the Georgia General Assembly, and then it would need to be put on the ballot for voters to decide.

Now there’s a question as to whether the Georgia General Assembly can simply remove the restriction and it not go on the ballot, versus authorizing a referendum and putting it on the ballot. I don’t know the answer to that. But at any rate, it is stalled, and during our next legislative agenda session in the fall, we’ll see if the mayor and council want to present that to our legislative delegation to take to Atlanta for action.

A: We’re not making the progress that I’d like to make. The Housing Authority has moved forward with its project. They’ve demoed a portion of the (Booker T. Washington Homes) structures property and there’s some demolition that’s yet to be done. They have relocated tenants. Chapman Homes, (where there’s) a new development, they are about ready to open that new development. The northern portion of BTW will be reconstructed — a new construction project will come along similar to Arbor Pointe and some of the others. It’ll be a beautiful facility. That’s into the re-district. The southern portion will be there for commercial and other type of development. We hope that that’s going to spark more interest in the Liberty District. We need to work on re-doing the Liberty District plan and we will get to work on that. But ... when we had the issues with that project, we moved and focused more attention on City Village. As you know, that’s moving along quite well. ... We need to work more on the Liberty District. It will happen. It’s just not moving as fast as I would like to see it move.

Q: Not at this time, but it’s a great piece of property. It fronts Veterans Parkway and Victory Drive. No doubt, it’s going to get a lot of attention.