Sunday Interview with Tonza Thomas: ‘I’ve been fighting ... to gain my youth and my dignity back.’

As president of the Columbus branch of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Tonza Thomas has been a visible grassroots leader in the community.

She was at the center of local controversy for demanding the termination of the city’s Crime Prevention Director Seth Brown over a July 1 reference he made about a “redneck bomb” on Facebook. On July 9, Thomas was arrested with activist Marquese “Skinny” Averett for unlawful assembly and blocking traffic while protesting against police-related shootings of black men across the country.

Thomas sat down with reporter Alva James-Johnson and talked about her background, life as a community activist and recent events.

Here are excerpts from the interview, with the content and order of the questions edited slightly for length and clarity.

Q: What was your life like growing up as a child?

A: I was spoiled rotten. My father was in the Marines and I was the oldest daughter. ... My mother was pretty much the disciplinarian. I could get away with stuff with my dad, but my mom ruled with an iron fist.

Growing up in Rhode Island was beautiful. There were so many different nationalities — Cambodians, Cape Verdeans, Spanish people, Irish people, and we all lived in the same neighborhood. ...But at about 12 years old, we moved to Georgia because it’s fast up North and my oldest brother was getting into a little bit of trouble. So my Daddy said, “I’m going to take them to the country.” When he brought us to the country, we lived in Lumpkin, Ga., for about two years.

... It was such a culture shock that I became disruptive in school. I lost faith, I lost hope. Where I knew I was this excellent kid in school in the North, when I came to the South and I put that same education on the table, they tried to make it seem like something was wrong with me, in the area of taking psychological testing as an elementary student. I had to go through that growing up.

Q: Tell us more about that time in your life.

A: ... My grandparents had 11 children ... and so I grew up with a host of cousins, aunties and uncles, and my grandaddy didn’t care whether your mother or your father was there or not. If he said don’t do something, he meant don’t do something. My granddaddy’s name was Shorty Johnson — he was a short man but he didn’t play. And my grandmother was this tall, 6-foot-2 woman with blue eyes. ... It was church Monday through Sunday. ... But I knew growing up, too, that I was a descendant of the oldest black cemetery in Stewart County, Ga. So that said something about my great-great grandparents and who I was supposed to be, as well as being the daughter of a former Black Panther, who happened to be a Marine.

Q: Tell me about your dad being a former Black Panther.

A: It wasn’t just my father. My grandmother and grandfather on the Thomas side had four boys. All of them were in the military and all of them were Panthers. And so, my oldest uncle, he would take me to Cape Cod on summer vacations ... not far from Martha’s Vineyard, where the Kennedys always vacationed. ... So politics and learning how to walk and talk correctly has always been part of my life. My father, his influence as a Panther was to always think and always speak your mind. ... I’m proud of who my dad was. He wasn’t a radical Black Panther. He was more of a free thinker and a freedom of speech kind of guy.

Q: When you moved to Columbus, where did you go to school?

A: My fondest experience with school was Eddy Junior High School because it was there where education was really put on the scene and I became a Columbus College Junior Achiever. ... You can’t get pregnant before you leave high school. You have to attend monthly enrichment sessions. ... But it was a disaster because I never knew at that time... that I was a full-figured girl. ... When I got here, I started (hearing), “Oh, well, she’s built.” I never knew what that meant because people weren’t open like that in Rhode Island. ... But here, grown men, and older boys were saying this to a child in middle school, and so I got caught up in that trap.

Q: What happened from there?

A: I was in the last freshman class at Baker High School. I loved Baker High School. ... I played basketball for Baker. And then when they merged Baker and Carver together, I left Baker and I went to Hardaway. ... I should have stayed. But some of my basketball colleagues, they were like, “Come on over to Carver. Come on over to Carver.” So I eventually went over to Carver and that was a disaster.

When I got to Carver, I was still basically new to Columbus and I had proper speech, and so people were picking on me — the whole time I’ve been in Columbus really — about I sound like I want to be white. ... And so, I had to fight.

Q: Did you graduate from Carver?

A: The last fight I had at Carver High School, I decided I was going to drop out of school, get married to my daughter’s father, who was in the military, we were going to move to Germany and life was going to be blissful. It didn’t happen that way. I did drop out of school, but I went to — it was WIA (Workforce Investment Act) at that time. And WIA was a program for you to receive your GED. ... I continued my education. I just got it on a quicker route. So I was able to graduate a year before my class at the Three Arts Theater, which is no longer here in Columbus. ... As years went on, the teachers and administrators of Carver High School ... were like, “Well, since you graduated with your GED in ’93, the last school you were at was Carver High School, and so you are a Carver alum.” I was like, “Yes!” So I get invited to all the class reunions.

Q: So what happened after high school?

A: In high school, I became a teen mother while I was at Baker at the age of 16. I thought I was grown, and my mama said, “I don’t care how grown you are, you gonna get up, and you’re going to school.” So I continued to go to school. By the time I got to Carver, I was pregnant with the second child. So you have a daughter in high school that’s a sophomore with two children. ... I eventually had another son. That made me have three children by the age of 20. And by the age of 26, I had four.

Q: You have mentioned, publicly, that you had gotten into some trouble as a youth. Can you tell us in what way?

A: ... I think I was 18, 19 years old. ... At a very young age, I became an exotic dancer. ... My first night at work at one of the establishments, the manager said to say, “The better the tip, the better the session” whenever someone came in the shop. And that’s what I said. It was my very first night at work, and my very first night at work is when the Columbus Vice Department came in and busted the place. ... All I could do was call my Mom.

... And so, I was arrested. I was taken downtown to the Vice Department. The guy who arrested me is still on the Police Department. ... And at that time, he took out the State Law Code Book to me and he read to me. ... This was a police officer that didn’t have to take out of his time to tell me this, but he did. He read the law to me, and it was as though I had been the scum of the earth. Solicitation is what the charge was. And if you’re coming in an establishment, a strip club, and you got money, and you’re exchanging money, and I say, “The better the tip, the better the session.” That’s saying I’m selling myself. Once that officer explained that to me, I was like, “That’s not me. The lady told me to say that.”

... And so from that day, I said, “Never again. I’m going back after the city government. I’m going back after the government, period.” Because children are being led out here on the street to do certain things, whether it is to be a street pharmacist or whatever. Children are trying to live, young adults are trying to live. And so, when you put these things in a neighborhood, and you don’t bring awareness to the dangers or the adverse affects that can happen from these establishments, you’re setting our youth up. And so, I’ve been fighting ever since then to gain my youth and my dignity back.

Q: So having had that experience and the pregnancies at an early age, what do you tell young people now about ways to avoid all of that?

A: You have to live with a standard. ... My oldest daughter at 26 has no children. My baby girl had her first child at 19. My oldest son is 21. He has no children. My son who’s 16 has no children. ...

I know my mother was ashamed of me when I got pregnant at that time. Teen pregnancy was rampant in the country because I grew up in the ’80s and ’90s, and so I wanted to deposit into my children that you don’t have to have children at a certain age. ...“When you become an adult, then you can have children. But please keep your youth.”

Q: How much do you think depression had to do with your decisions?

A: It did, because my father had been gone a couple of years before I got pregnant. I got pregnant at 15 and had my daughter at 16. So there were three years in there that my father and mother were going through their divorce. So, I was still in the rebellion state, and I was like, “Whatever I need to do to get them two back together, I was willing to do it.” But I shouldn’t have done it that way.

Q: So tell me how you went on to get an associate’s degree.

A: ... I was raised a Panther. So I knew I wasn’t a statistic. ... I realized that if you get an education, that’s one thing they can’t take away from you. If you get a criminal history, that’s one thing that’s probably going to stick with you. Although that previous charge that I talked about was a misdemeanor, still it was tied to my name. I said, “Well, I’m going to go back to college because they can’t take that when I get it.”

Q: And so you went to Columbus Tech, right?

A: Columbus Technical College saved my and my children’s lives. ... One of my instructors, I will never forget her, a white lady named, Susan Walley. She was the instructor for the School of Business. And, of course, I was still in my 20s. So I had this green, purple, pink, blue hair on a college campus. And, you know, pants were so tight, if I had made the wrong move, I would’ve split ’em. ... She said, “I want you to be a part of Phi Beta Lambda.” I said, “What’s Phi Beta Lambda?” She said, “Well, you’re a business student and Phi Beta Lambda is geared toward business students. And so, we teach you professional grooming. We teach you how to dress for success. We teach you resume building. We teach you how to market yourself. ...” So I was like, “OK.” But she said, “I want you to be an officer.” I’m like, “This lady is tripping.” ... She said, “I want you to be vice president.” ... I did not know at that moment that she was changing my life and restructuring me for something greater than Columbus Tech.

Q: How did you get involved in the NAACP?

A: ... The secretary of the NAACP at that time was also on campus in nursing school. He said, “I see you on campus working your butt off. Do you know what the NAACP is?” I said, “Yeah, I’ve heard about it. It’s an old, way-back-in-the-day organization for black folk.” And he said, “No. If you want to see what the NAACP is, meet me Saturday morning and we’re going to training in Atlanta and I’m going to acclimate you to the NAACP.” That was in February 2007. ... I went to this meeting. ... I was listening to what the old heads were saying and I could appreciate it because I could hear the remnants of my father, my grandfather, my grandmother and my mother.

I ran for state secretary after being in the organization a year. ... I lost by 6 percent of the votes. ... Two years later, I ran for state secretary in 2010. I won by 26 percent of the votes and I have been in that position ever since as state secretary. This is my third term.

Q: Now you’re the second woman president of the Columbus branch. In the position, you’ve had some high profile moments. Most recently you were arrested in a demonstration in response to what’s going on nationally with police-related shootings. Can you tell us a little about those circumstances and how that came about?

A: ... I had a relationship on the business side of things with a certain city employee, Mr. Seth Brown. And if I am a leader of a minority organization, and you are my friend, and you make a statement, and I say to you, “That’s not funny. Please retract your statement.” And you totally ignore me? Then you are not my friend because my friends respect my position as I should respect them and theirs. And so, I think the arrest was a direct response to that situation. ...

As we were protesting, it was peaceful. We went up one side of downtown Columbus, and around the other side. ... As I was crossing the street, I made sure that we told everybody, “This may be the part that we’re arrested for civil disobedience. So if you do not want to be a part of this demonstration to please go back to the Government Center.” Those were my exact words and I said that about four times. So as I was crossing Veteran’s Parkway, there was a car off in the distance. But immediately as I was crossing from one side of Veterans to get to the other, the car sped up and almost hit me, and it was then that I said, “You know what, I know you all don’t want us to march. I know you’re trying to silence our voices. ...” So I felt at that moment, “This is going to be a defining moment. Since you tried to hit me, and the police are out here and you didn’t care about it, I’m going to stand right here.” However, I was not in the middle of the street when I chose to stop.

Q: Why were you protesting in the first place?

A: My protest wasn’t about fame or publicity. My protest was about, “I’m sick and tired of having these same conversations about police brutality. I’m sick and tired of having these same conversations about young black men being killed. I’m sick and tired of having the conversation about what do we tell our children to do when they’re approached by the police.”

...There’s a part of this community that said, “My parents were quiet. I’m not going to be quiet any more.” So as a leader with this recent arrest, I have been telling our young adults and our youth, “It’s not OK to go to jail. So I sacrificed myself for you because I wanted your story to be told and their story is, “They’re not going to take it anymore.”

... There were a slew of other people walking. There should have been a slew of other people arrested. But it was a political statement, and I don’t know if it helped or hurt our city or our organization. But I know that for the young folk, they were like, “If our president could stand on the line and go through this for us, then we need to join her.” I got 250 new Facebook friends from the day I was arrested to today, and they were all young African-American men and women in Columbus.

Q: You apologized at Columbus Council. Do you have any regrets about any of it?

A: If I had done something wrong, I would have a regret. But I did nothing wrong to be arrested. I exercised civil disobedience, which was protesting without a permit. I was not the organizer of that protest, so I shouldn’t have been arrested anyway. I apologized for being in the spotlight and taking the spotlight off of what the real issue is, and that’s police brutality and the murders of African-American men.

Q: You and Seth Brown have both said you’re friends. Do you see the two of you still working together after that controversy?

A: Yes. ... I’ve always said we have no permanent friends, we have no permanent enemies. We have permanent issues. And friends help you work out your issues.

This story was originally published July 23, 2016 at 9:48 PM with the headline "Sunday Interview with Tonza Thomas: ‘I’ve been fighting ... to gain my youth and my dignity back.’."