Sunday Interview with Billy Turner: 'I see an economic engine. I see a beautiful river.'
Billy Turner knows more about water than anyone in Columbus. At 78, the retired president of the Columbus Water Works is now working with Troy University as the director of its Center for Water Resource Economics.
He understands the water wars between Alabama, Georgia and Florida like few in this region.
Recently, he sat down with Ledger-Enquirer reporter Chuck Williams to talk about water.
Here are excerpts of the interview, with some of the questions edited for length and the order of some of the questions rearranged for clarity.
When you see this river, Billy, what do you see?
It’s turned into something — a really superior section of the Chattahoochee. For the impact that it has had on Columbus, I see an economic engine. I see a beautiful river, one that was kind of uncovered when we removed the dams.
I still see a source of conflict between the three states and the upper river and the down river interests. I think 2016 will a huge year as far as these water issues are concerned. The Corps of Engineers is to release its water control plan, first one that’s been done in 50 years.
This month they will release their new water control plan. The lawsuit that’s going on between Florida and Georgia will probably come to a head in the Supreme Court. It’s a big, big decision year. This coming year, I think, after we’ve waited 30 years, maybe will bring some resolution. But I’m not sure it will bring resolution that will make anybody happy. That’s sort of what the master that the Supreme Court appointed said, was that, “If you guys can’t settle it amongst yourself, you may not like what I come up with.”
Columbus is in a tricky spot when it comes to the river negotiations, right? We’re part of Georgia, but our interests aren’t necessarily aligned with the Atlanta economic interest, right?
Yes, we’re in a tricky situation. That’s the major emphasis of those of us who’ve been involved in this, to try to assure some steady flow for the river in Columbus. That’s why we harp on something we call 1,350 cubic feet per second, which is the average daily flow that we would like to see maintained at that gauge right there by the bridge. That’s the flows that are incorporated into the Georgia Power energy license.
That’s what we really focus on, is trying to make sure the flows don’t get lower than about 800 or 900, that’s when they have the classic whitewater. Then we get the high flows in the afternoon that are anywhere from 4,000 to 9,000. If you look at that flow scheme that’s generated by hydropower, you get about 20 hours of the low-flow condition and four hours of the high-flow condition, and that basically breaks down to the 1,350 average daily flow that we want to see maintained here.
When you look at this river right now, did you think you would see people using it for recreational purposes 25 years ago?
No, not really. There were issues from Atlanta that people focused on, and still do ...
Water quality issues?
Water quality issues. But we had a huge water quality issue here, until we cleaned up the combined sewer system in 1995. We got a order from the State of Georgia, which grew out of the federal law, that all the cities in Georgia who had combined sewers had to solve those problems. Columbus was one of them. It was a huge burden when we got it.
Nobody really knew how to solve a combined sewer problem back then, because virtually, across the country, nobody had addressed it. There were lots of places where there were combined sewers, and still are.
That’s the point where the river went from being undesirable to desirable, correct?
I would say that was the time that we resolved the water quality problems in the river, which made it possible to think about recreation. But until you essentially took the two dams out, it didn’t have much going for it. You had some little pools or puddles created by the previous two dams that had served the textile industry. Until you combined those two things, improved water quality and removal of the two dams, you didn’t have this thing that people are enamored with today, which is essentially whitewater that you can do lots of things on.
Is the river clean?
It is. No outdoor stream can you ever say is perfectly clean, because it takes all the drainage that comes from every warm-blooded animal that goes in the woods. You can’t ever say that it is absolutely clean, but it meets the standards for a body of recreation, whole body of recreation, as specified under the Clean Water Act. That’s what we basically say, that it meets the needed criteria to do that. Water Works has done lots of measurements here to prove that that’s the case.
You’re confident that this river is perfectly OK for people to be in on a daily basis?
On a daily basis, there is a little concern after you have a rainfall event and you get the runoff from the area, that maybe we have to pay more attention to over time. But, as a general rule, as the river flows today under normal, dry conditions, it’s a good, quality river.
Do we still get the downstream sewage and other issues from Atlanta?
Not much anymore. They’ve done a lot in there since, let’s say, 1980, 1990, when they started addressing their water-quality issues. They’ve really done a lot. They actually use some of the technology we developed here to treat their high flows.
Essentially, when you get a rainfall event and you’re capturing that rainfall, you have a different kind of treatment system than you do for the sewage.
That’s the technology that had to be developed, and they've adopted a number of types of technology, built big tunnels so they can capture the rainfall and then treat it on a more gradual kind of basis. They’ve done a lot to improve the water quality coming down river.
Is it perfect yet? I don’t think so, but it’s a lot better.
Are you surprised people from Atlanta, Montgomery, Birmingham, Macon, Tallahassee are coming to Columbus to get in the river and do whitewater rafting?
If you’d asked me this 10, 15 years ago, I would have said, “You know, I don’t know what that potential might be.” But today, having been part of the whitewater effort and understanding what all went into it to make it a good whitewater rafting experience, I’m not surprised at all. Now, we’re recognized essentially around the world with having recognition in USA Today. It’s a fine piece of work that has been done right here in Columbus.
Is that an example of economic development?
Absolutely. Absolutely. What is economic development? It’s essentially creating an entity that has a product, and that, that product, somebody wants to buy it. That’s what we have, we have a product and people want to come and take advantage of it, and then they spread their money to different places in the city.
Let’s go back now. You retired as president of the Water Works six years ago. Now, you are working for Troy University. Tell us a little bit about what you’re doing and how it’s still about water?
About three years ago, Judson Edwards and some of the folks here in Phenix City got a group of us together to talk about the issues about water and what could Troy do to play a role in that.
Judson Edwards from Phenix City had this idea of using economic tools to do that. I participated in that discussion just to give them my thoughts and ideas. A couple of months later they called me and asked me if I’d be interested in working with them in trying to get the Center for Water Resource Economics going. While I’m not an economist at all, I’m a scientist. That’s where we are. We’ve gotten started. We’ve made a good start. Hopefully, we’ll have some economic analysts coming on board before the end of this year that will help us address some of these critical issues that we’re trying to address along this stretch of the river.
There’s also the Alabama-Coosa-Tallapoosa section of the river that goes right down through the middle of Alabama. There are issues about the Tennessee (River) that Georgia would like to get its hands on. There are lots of water issues out there that need better understanding and better analysis.
Auburn University and the University of Alabama were already in the water resource business. What were they doing and what does Troy University now bring to the table as the universities help deal with this issue?
You may not be aware that Alabama, in Tuscaloosa, contains something called the National Water Center. That’s brand new. They hope to locate a lot of the federal organizations there, like NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association). So that’s brought a focus on Tuscaloosa, and they’ve moved toward policy and law. A gentleman named Bennett Bearden, who had kind of headed up Alabama’s water program over the last few years out of one of the state agencies, has now moved over to the University of Alabama — he’s a key leader over there.
Auburn has had a pretty good focus on water issues, particularly coming from the agricultural side, but a lot of modeling and technology that they are addressing, we’ve talked a good deal within the three water centers and, in fact, they’re putting on a program in two weeks down at Perdido Beach, where all of those issues will be discussed in one symposium. The idea is that the three schools could work together to help address some of Alabama’s water planning.
How have you seen Columbus change since 1989?
There’ve been a lot of people who have encouraged it to change in a lot of ways. The historic community has done a lot of good things to maintain that part of Columbus. Obviously, the Springer Opera House, the arts, the things that have developed in our community didn’t just come to Columbus for no reason.
The role I’ve been able to play as kind of a leader in one entity of Columbus, at the Water Works, I think the Water Works became a player in the whole community’s activities — I know I was pretty involved in many boards and activities that have gone on and they’ve certainly continued in that role. (Water Works President) Steve Davis is the chairman of United Way this year.
Now when you look at Columbus and Phenix City, we seem to gather by the river a lot now. A lot of people give you credit, through the combined sewer overflow effort, of getting us to look at our river differently. Do you think you have played a key role in helping this community to look at the river differently?
I certainly was in a key position when the issue that we had to deal with came down. The seat I sat in at the Columbus Water Works is possibly one of the more critical ones in making that final decision, but there were a lot of players.
One of the reasons I came here is the kind of water board that we’ve had all these years. I served under five mayors and 15 water board members in the 20 years I was there. Every one of them are a real asset to our community. They helped me make decisions that needed to be made.
Let me switch gears just real quickly, Billy. Looking in Columbus, the water board — the water authority, the Water Works — is an entity that has some autonomy from the city. In Phenix City, the water board is part of the city utility system run by the city. Which system works better?
You can look across the state of Georgia, which I have, at those that are water authorities and they run the better water systems in the state. When you’re incorporated with the city budget and you have to deal with all of those issues and the Water Works is just then a part of that, it’s the most critical resource that a city manages, its water.
And, by extension, its sewage, right?
Exactly. In other words, that’s water in a different form. It’s just one water, Chuck.
I think it’s a good thing for the water and waste water system to be managed by a relatively independent group of people. It’s such a heavy infrastructure. So much of the decisions that it makes are 50-year decisions. It’s not a political-term decision or something that’s better for this part of the community or that part of the community, it’s a long-term decision.
This is kind of an offbeat question, but what do you think about the whole homeless issue that’s sprung up at the Water Works Park on Second Avenue? I would imagine when you guys built it, that was probably something that never came to mind.
We built it with a community park in mind. When it started, we had lots of children’s programs there. We had Easter egg hunts. We had a lot of weddings. Then, at some point in time, the homeless kind of took it over.
I’m hopeful it will, with the homeless issue that the community has going, that it will see its heyday again. It was truly built with the idea that it would be a public park that would be available to everybody to use and that it would get used for those kind of things that I mentioned.
It’s a disappointment to see it.
What are you most proud of?
Let me say, first, 56 years of marriage to my wife. She was straight A’s in college. She’s brilliant. She’s helped me all along the way with almost every decision I’ve made. I discuss most everything with her and you know how important a spouse can be in giving you good advice sometimes. They’re sometimes the only one who will tell you that your fly’s unzipped or something that they feel like you need to know.
I have a great family of three boys and five grandchildren that I’m really proud of. That’s the biggest part of your life, the things that you’re daily in contact with and you want to see that be as positive as it can possibly be.
... I am also proud of Oxbow Meadows Environmental Learning Center. It was a 1994 mutual idea with Dr. George Stanton and with the support of CSU President Frank Brown we made it happen on a piece of land that was the site of one of the worst landfills possible. The city later provided support in a local option sales tax that has added great improvements to the facilities.
As far as Columbus is concerned, it’s just been great for me. I’ve had people from Gardiner Garrard, who happened to be chairman of the board when I was selected, but wasn’t here the day I came to work and has never been the chairman of the board but always somebody kind of there for me when I wanted to discuss something.
The first chairman of my board was Col. Aldric Hayes. I don’t know whether you remember Colonel Hayes or not, but he was the first black man on the water board, and he was my first chairman and was a great leader. He lives up in Spring Harbor now, and he’s a fantastic guy. He had a small construction company here in town, did lots of work for federal agencies, but was a really good man.
Hugh Landrum ran the museum for a number of years. He was probably the person I leaned on the most during the most difficult years, early years here in the Water Works.
Of course, Kathelen Amos was chairman of my board longer than anybody else while I was there. People like John and Philip Thayer were very good players. Jimmy Yancey.
Bobby Gaylor was head of the gas company when I came to town. Bobby kind of took me by the collar and said, “Billy, you need to get involved in this and this,” and so he put me on the Red Cross board to start with. Then United Way he got me involved in.
There were lots of people here in Columbus that have been mentors, partners, everything.
James Johnson, who was minister at First Presbyterian Church when I came here, he and Lobenta were the first people to invite us out to dinner and I was in his Sunday School class for many years and got a lot out of it. God sent me here.
Bio
Age: 78
Job: Retired president and chief executive officer of Columbus Water Works. Currently director of Troy University, Center for Water Resource Economics
Hometown: Whitwell, Tenn., about 20 miles west of Chattanooga
Current home: Columbus
Education: Whitwell High School, 1954; University of Chattanooga, BS in chemistry, 1958; University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, Master of Science in Public Health and Environmental Science, 1961
Family: Judee, wife of 56 years; children Rodney, Chris and Jeff; five grandchildren.
This story was originally published September 12, 2015 at 11:02 PM with the headline "Sunday Interview with Billy Turner: 'I see an economic engine. I see a beautiful river.'."